In conversation with karrin allyson
Editors Note: As part of jazz.com's focus on jazz vocalists this month, we are delighted to present this interview with Karrin Allyson, conducted by Marissa Dodge. Dodge, a talented lyricist in her own right (check out her work with Phil Kelly and
Lena Horne) is a connoisseur of the jazz vocal arts. She proved to be the perfect interlocutor for Allyson, who has made her mark through a series of outstanding - and often surprising - recordings for the Concord label. Allyson's newest offering, Imagina: Songs of Brazil, is scheduled for release next month, and will no doubt offer another interesting angle in a multi-faceted career that has encompassed everything from Cat (Stevens) to Caetano (Veloso). And if Allyson hasn't yet gone from Coltrane to Cobain, it's just a matter of time. Her music is marked not just by its eclectic range, but even more by its emotional authenticity. Few singers are more skilled at bringing a lyric to life than this talented lady. For more on Allyson, see the article The State of Jazz Vocals Today, published earlier this week on jazz.com. T.G.
Your recordings have become more like collections of works of art rather than CDs. What musicians and composers will you collect next?
Thank you. Our new album is coming out in March of 2008 and its Brazilian material; some of its Jobim, but not all of it. Rosa Passos - great singer from Brazil, wrote a beautiful song called, Outono, which means Autumn, and Paul Williams wrote the English lyric for it
Paul Williams wrote lyrics for Ivan Lins music as well.
Yes, the same kind of collaboration, but the song is quite different. There are also two Edo Lobo and Vinicius de Moraes songs that my friend, Chris Caswell - the gentlemen who wrote many of the lyrics to the Footprints songs - wrote new English lyrics to, and there are two Jobim songs, A Felicidade and Vivo Sonhando, that Susannah McCorkle wrote English lyrics to. We recorded it at Sear Sound, NYC, where we did Footprints, Wild For You, and In Blue.
Sonically as well as musically, Footprints is a great recording; all astral tracks and your sound is so warm and in the room. Its nice to hear the presence and quality of your voice rather than effects and overproduction.
Thank you. Ive been using the same engineer, Josiah Gluck, since Ballads. My producer, Nick Phillips - who played trumpet on Footprints - has been with me since my third CD. Weve built a strong studio relationship. Also, my partner, Bill McGlaughlin is extremely helpful in the studio.
Bill is a fount of musical knowledge and multi-talented like you. Its great to have a trusted support system, then you can just fly.
Yes, and theres a ton of work for me to do. Im extremely involved with this recent project. I arranged some of the songs and co-arranged the rest. I always choose the material and the players, schedule what and when we record, and we just finished mixing it and Im very involved in that too.
What makes you fall in love with songs?
Thats kind of a mysterious thing, I think, for everyone, but obviously if its a great melody or if the lyrics are happening - and maybe its not both - youre lucky if its both. If it has a meaning, one that everyone can get, or if it has a meaning to you and you hope to portray it for others, also the storytelling qualities, and the messages.
Do you ever pick one because it just feels good to sing? Say, a melody thats a great jumping off point that you can improvise on layer after layer?
Yes, thats a good point - true. And maybe thats a real live consideration, like youre thinking about what tune you want to start with, which is very important to get you going and connecting with the audience and your players. Thats important throughout the performance, but especially that first song. So yes, you definitely think, Its not like I have to send a message and tell a story on this first song, I just want to get a flow going.
Ive seen you live a few times, and youre a superb performer. What do you think about doing a live CD?
Thank you. Weve thought about it, its in the future, it just hasnt happened yet. Live recordings have their own sets of challenges.
A live studio CD with an audience would be cool
that would be very cool, I like that idea.
What tracks from Footprints are closest to your soul?
I like the title track a lot; I love that lyric and the treatment of that song. I love to groove around with The Turnaround, thats fun, and I play both of those songs live on piano, so its also fun to connect that way. I think "Con Alma" is beautiful, the lyric and the treatment. Separating myself from it, I like doing those tracks live. A Tree And Me is beautiful - Oscar Brown Jr.s song - I play piano on that one live too.
Your recording of A Tree And Me sounds exactly the way it should be - its a framed portrait. Like Con Alma, it also has classical shadings, a natural for you on piano.
We lovingly borrowed Oscar Brown Jr.s version of that tune, its really his. His is also a vignette, he doesnt take it out or improvise on it, its a poem. Bruce Barth plays on the recording, and I play it live unless Bruce is on the gig, but Ive lost him to Tony Bennett. With my guitar quartet - which I love - I play more piano, I also stand up and sing because I like that freedom.
When you accompany yourself on piano, do you sing differently? Do you feel more or less comfortable with a song?
Ive been told I sing differently, from sound people, when Im sitting vs. when Im standing. I havent thought about it that much as far as the projection - hopefully, to a certain extent thats the sound engineers job. I dont think I approach it that differently, although Im multitasking
and your attention is divided, yet, youre the core of the music. Do you feel that grounding tonal center when youre at the piano?
Yes, I do. When I sit down its a very comfortable feeling and its more challenging too, it just depends on the song, how complicated it is, and if Im just learning the song. For example, many of the songs Ill end up playing piano on for performances though I wasnt necessarily playing on the recording, so a lot of them are still new to me.
Would you like to record an entire CD with you playing piano and singing, whether solo, trio, or quartet, but essentially you as the nucleus?
Thats an interesting idea. You know, I already feel like the nucleus - but I know what youre saying - and that happens more live than in recording, so maybe someday, sure.
Most of my favorite vocalists play piano; Sarah, Carmen, Shirley Horndo you feel that your piano background has given you a more complete, well-versed method of singing, especially in your impeccable improvisational skills?
Thank you. When I learn songs I sit down at the piano with them. Usually I do that, even if its something I never really plan on playing. Like if its a real up bebopper, thats not my thing at the piano. Ill still learn the melody on the piano and play around with it. But yes, I do feel that, especially when singers come up and ask, What would you suggest I do if theres just three things? Number one is, do you play any piano? If you can, get some keyboard knowledge. It doesnt mean you have to perform for people on the keyboard, but it certainly helps you as a musician.
It beats the sense of chords and harmony into you. More singers should play piano.
Yes. Id like to eventually to take a more harmonic approach to my improvisation. I think its probably more melodic based up until now
I hear it all within your solos, and I also hear melodies that are ready-made compositions. How about writing music?
Thats a good point, my lyricist/composer friend, Chris Caswell, will say, Just improvise into a tape recorder and lets make a melody out of it. So we do that already. Chris and I have songs that weve written together, and I have songs that Ive written the music to. One blues tune is on a CD that weve done, Sweet Home Cookin." Thats my tune, and there are a couple that Ive written partial lyrics to and I wrote the lyric to Jordu on Footprints. But there are pieces that I do write music to, so thats in the future.
Its a natural progression because your improvs sound composed - still in the moment and not contrived, but composed. Thats a rare skill with vocalists, but the best ones do it. Ive always loved the way Ella laid her solos out.
Thats true, she was the master.
She was, but youre a master at it as well. I always get a kick out of listening to you scat.
Thats very kind, thank you, Marissa.
Speaking of Life Is A Groove, I dig that.
Thats a fun one.
And of course theres not enough time to talk about how much we love Nancy King.
Oh gosh, yes!
Shes great. How did you come up with the lyric for Life Is A Groove?
I was driving to a gig from Kansas City to Minneapolis and listening to my favorite Clifford Brown, Max Roach offering of that song and Joy Spring and all that. So I thought, I love this little tune, and I just started writing that lyric. Sometimes it happens that way but usually it doesnt! (laughs).
Yes, its sporadic at best. Did you feel more comfortable singing that lyric because you created it?
No, less. I feel its a very personal thing to sing your own lyrics. As a singer youre already pretty naked out there, and if youre singing your own lyrics - and music is one thing because its a little more ethereal, meaning the melody or the chords - but its different when youre singing lyrics. Though sometimes as a singer/songwriter youre kind of taking the role as an actress, and its not necessarily you youre talking about.
It becomes conceptual, yet we always wonder if the writer lived the lyric. Though one of your gifts is interpretation - both lyrically and melodically. Your fluency in musical styles is your differentiator. Its always Karrin, but you truly become the style, you dont just imitate it.
Thats nice of you to say that, because thats important to me.
I can tell it is because you excel at it. Ive often wondered how much of it is innate, and how much of it is skill and work, but my theory is that the key to capturing styles from Brazilian to bop - everything you do so well - is feel. What is it for you and how do you apply it?
Good question. I do think a lot of its feel. Even when we cant understand a languagesay Im singing in Portuguese, and Im not fluent in Portuguese, like opera singers who know a language can both speak and sing in it. I do speak French, and Im learning Portuguese, and I certainly cant converse in it, but you sing like you can. You dont have to understand the language to get the feel or the style down. People love Edith Piaf in this country, they dont necessarily know what shes singing, but she has so much heart, soul, and feel in it that you get it.
How to prepare for it? I get tutoring in the languages, I dont take it lightly or simply sing it syllabically. I want to know as much of the meaning as I can and get the accent down as close as I can. Its hard, but I love languages, so its a labor of love. Also, getting the grooves down - I think what really captures us at first with Brazilian music are those wonderful samba, bossa, and folk grooves. Brazilian music has become such a big part of the American songbook too - so many great Brazilian composers.
Yes, its peoples music. On the Concord Voices of Jazz DVD, you nail the blues with Moanin then slip right into a Brazilian groove with My Little Boat. When youre swiftly switching styles, do you hear a piece of it in your head, feel the groove like a drummer would, get it into your body, and then walk into it, or?
Yes, because live you have to switch from style to style on a dime, and its not always successful, especially with bebop - time is everything, really. But say youve finished Moanin and youre going to do a bebop song, the tempo is important because if youre spitting out words, like on Joy Spring, you want to be able to make your words understandable. Bebop has that continuum.
Its rapid-fire.
It is, and you cant look back, you have to keep moving forward.
Thats the fun and the fear of it.
Yes, bop is an amazing intellectual challenge.
It was a treat to hear you, Jon Hendricks and Nancy King on Everybodys Boppin. What a great trio! I smiled at your laugh on Jons solo, as if to say, Howd you come up with those riffs, Jon!
Thats so much fun to be in the same room as them, the energy is amazing! The laugh? Well, you know you try to as much real stuff in there as you possibly can.
Nancy is wonderful; Im drawn in by everything she does.
Me too. When I first saw her live, I was on the edge of my seat crying and laughing.
Are there other art forms that inspire you musically; literature, visual arts, nature?
Im nature girl. I love being outside and Im an environmentalist. I love movies. I love to read biographies, novels, and nature magazines - almost anything.
Do you constantly hear music and rhythms in your surroundings?
I have pretty acute hearing and for what I do for a living thats good, but when youre living in the city its not so good. Ive always been bothered by noise. I usually work it out in rhythms - not necessarily intentionally, its just percussive stuff.
How do you turn it down and find the peace and silence we need to refill the cup?
Getting outside, or trying to get enough sleep. I dont listen to music constantly, I dont always have my iPod in my ears when Im out and about.
Do you dream about singing and playing?
Usually when I dream about singing or playing its that I cant find the gig, (both laughing). Its those incompetence dreams. I cant find the stage or my clothes. . .
Field day for Freud.
Those are the dreams I have. I dont have dreams of grandeur or anything like that. (laughs)
You live your dreams of grandeur.
Thats very nicewe certainly have reality, yes.
sometimes too much. On that note, since reality can be in print, do you ever wish that reviewers who get caught up with your physical appearance would focus instead on your depth, brilliance, and musical accomplishments?
I dont see that very much. I wish that they would, yes. They probably wouldnt do that to a guy, but I dont think they focus on my appearance as much as they do on a lot of other people. We just got a review recently from our Birdland performance from Stephen Holden (New York Times), and he wrote, With Ms. Allyson there is never any nonsense. She doesnt preen, flirt or act coy. I liked that because I dont try and draw attention to myself particularly, I try to draw attention to the song, the music, and my players.
Has it been a challenge to balance remaining true to yourself and the music vs. the business?
Not really, the challenge of it is to keep track of it all and to find a management team that has the same goals and vision as you. I want someone to show me the way too. I dont always want to be the one to say, Do this and do that.
You dont want to be preoccupied with it; youre there for the music.
But, Im constantly preoccupied with it, unfortunately, unless Im singing or playing. I dont travel with a road manager, I do the bulk of this day to day stuff on my own.
Thats a lot to carry and it takes you away from the music. Maybe its a bit off balance, you could be singing right now.
Not singing, ideally Id be practicing piano, Id be singing a little or maybe trying to write or finish one of the ten songs Ive started. But, thats an excuse you can always use, Well, if I didnt have to do this, Id be sitting at that piano. Ive never been a very good practicer. I usually have to have a project to motivate me. I do enjoy sitting down and playing. Last summer, there was a rare lull in my schedule and I put together my sweet little classical book; stuff I like to play thats challenging but not too challenging, and I started to play classical again, which was my first love.
Id love to hear you play classical. If you hadnt chosen music, what career might interest you?
Ive thought about that lately (both laughing) there are moments when I think, Gee, what other options do I have? (more laughter)
Man, do I know the feeling.
Im sure you do. Everybody who is rather open minded goes that route sometimes. I feel that Im a versatile person. As Ive mentioned, I love being outside, I dont know how Id do that all the time, but I used to think that Id be involved in a social cause - which I am peripherally, but something like joining the Peace Corps. I like working with older folks, I think theyre an undervalued part of our society and we have much to learn from them and cherish about them. So those two things, and Id like to pursue languages more heavily; French was my minor in college and classical piano was my major, but languages and culture interest me.
Weve covered alternative lives, how about the afterlife? Its your first gig in Heaven, whos on stage with you?
Heaven huh? You have high hopes for me! (laughs) I think musically Id rather be in Hell - Ill play with the folks in Hell . . no, just kidding. (laughter). Wow, lets see, thats a hard question because I have so many! Do they have to be dead? (laughs) Because Id love to see Joni Mitchell live. If she were open to hanging with someone, itd be fascinating to sing with her.
More among the living that youd like to collaborate with? The first person who comes to mind is Kurt Elling. You, Nancy King, and Kurt are the hippest in the hemisphere, along with Jon Hendricks, Mark Murphy and Sheila Jordan. Youre all innovators, while many vocalists tend to stagnate in rehash mode.
I did get a dream come true to work with and know Nancy, and I pursued that, so thats a good point, and I love Kurts stuff, weve sat in together before, so I think that would be a really fun project. I admire Maria Schneiders work very much, and Johnny Mandel as well. When I hire people for recordings theyre people Ive always wanted to work with; Bruce Barth, I pursued him as a pianist, I think hes a fantastic musician - great human being. All the people Ive been working with forever; my drummer Todd Strait - everything I do hes right in the pocket with, and talk about being versatile, I couldnt do it unless my musicians were versatile too. My guitarist, Rod Fleeman, also pianist Gil Goldstein, both beautiful players. Ive been working with vibist, Steve Nelson a lot, also Steve Wilson, a wonderful horn player. I love working with Laura Caviani because shes a great piano player and collaborator, besides being a lovely person and one of my great friends. Shes written many big band charts for me, shes so open and hard working. People who are good at what they do love what they do - if that makes sense. I mean in this business you have to work hard, especially if youre a side person - even though I really dont like that term, because its more of a collaborative thing - but my players have to get behind the music Im doing. I love working with my long time guitarist Danny Embrey. Bob Bowman has been a huge influence on me. I loved working with Paul Smith (keys) because he was so joyful and swingin. So its mostly closer to home, rather than thinking, Oh someday Id like to work with, lets say, Pat Metheny, - although, thatd be fun!
Your piano is calling you. Last question: a wise old man once told me that one of the secrets of life is having things to look forward to. What do you look forward to?
Ahtime off - thats always nice, although I do look forward to wonderful performing opportunities. I look forward to new beginnings but also take great comfort in old friends and my family. I look forward to a new democratic, fair administration.
Amen. Just a new set of problems
I know it, anythings better than this.
I look forward to what youre going to come up with next. Youre one of my handful of inspiring current artists. You give me hope for this art.
Thats very nice of you, I appreciate that, and Ive always loved what you do, Marissa, I love (singing) Big Moe was a catfish and he only had one wish I think thats fantastic, I could never come up with something like that.
Thanks (laughing). But you sang it. I can write all day, but unless I have a Karrin to interpret it appropriately, songwriting can seem fruitless. Thank you for taking time away from making music to talk to me, Karrin. There are so many layers of you that I hoped to discover for myself and your listeners. Youre not only a vocalist, but an entire artist.
Well, thats very kind of you, thank you. I feel like it, but you know you always feel like theres so much more work to do; that this part of you needs to be developed and this and that. But every once in a while I guess we can say, You know what, you did good today.
Karrins good is great - every day. A similar hopeful humbleness exists in each great artist Ive been fortunate to meet. Within them lives an unspoken pact to honor the art form they love and to create and contribute work thats worthy of our jazz heritage. Once this more quixotic than gratifying quest takes hold, its like bop, theres no turning back. To quote Karrins lyric for Jordu, I used to dream of playing jazz all night. So if you ask me nice, well I just might pick up my microphone and sing for you, only for you. And so my friend now you can plainly see this is the kind of thing that is for me, as long as we can play in harmony, life is a groove. Itll take the whole world a while to hear the harmony, but as long as Karrin sings and plays for us, life is a groove.
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February 15, 2008 · 4 comments
I heard Karrin Allyson in Santa Barbara at the Jazz Hall Club, run by Ridah Omri. I was very taken by the quality of voice in this intimate club setting with excellent musicians who came up all the way from L.A. for this gig, and so I created the charcoal from Karrin's photo that you see in this article. Sometimes I am sure that my focus on the artist has a lot to do with their focus on their music, their involvement. I catch into that. It makes me feel centered and in the art space.
Marissa, what a fabulous interview with one of my favorite vocalists, Karrin Allyson.Hearing Karrin talk about the new songs she's been writing has left me chompin' at the bit; anyone who can sing with that much soul certainly must have a deep well and I look forward to hearing what rises up! am a long time fan of both of you gals, and thank you so much for getting together.Can't wait to hear Karrin's new CD.
Yo M: Excellent interview! You have yet another whole career ahead of you if the songwriting asiriations ( or perspirations ) end up in the dumper. It's a lot more interesting to read an interview written by a songsmith /musician interviewing another singer. The questions are more penetrating at a musical level and evoke responses from the artist that would be absent from many less well informed non-musician writers. I can't wait to see who you interview next time. cheers: Phil Kelly www.philkellymusic.com NW Prevailing Winds SW Santa Ana Winds Origin Records ps: It was great that both you and Karrin gave Nancy King some way overdue props!!
I really enjoyed this for the same reasons as Phil Kelly stated - someone "in the know" interviewing a musician. Reminds me of one of my favorite books - the late drummer Art Taylor's book, "Notes and Tones." To have a musician interviewing his peers...right on the money. Great and insightful interview. Thanks. Marla